The following article, in its entirety, is located at
http://etb-history-theology.blogspot.com/2012/04/gk-chestertons-universalism.html
http://etb-history-theology.blogspot.com/2012/04/gk-chestertons-universalism.html
G.K. Chesterton's Universalism
I have difficulty seeing what relevance Chesterton's views on salvation are. Chesterton was no theologian and his views on salvation don't cut much ice, with me at least.I enjoy Chesterton still, for his lightness and wit. His statement that "Satan fell by force of gravity, by taking himself too gravely," still resonates with me, along with his statement about how "the test of a good religion is whether or not it can laugh at itself." Chesterton's lightness and bright wit is not normally seen in Christian apologetics, and ORTHODOXY is I think his lightest most witty religious work, written soon after his debate with Blatchford over religion in the press. G.K.'s relationships with "heretics" (as in his book of the same title), were also very congenial, even brotherly. Besides Blatchford, G.K.s first sparring partner (whom G.K. graciously praised), he also sparred over metaphysical subjects with George Bernard Shaw many times in public, and there's a book about their long friendship titled GBS AND GKC: THE METAPHYSICAL JESTERS. Shaw was a friend of both Chesterton and his wife, and loaned G.K. money and even urged G.K. to try playwriting, which wound up earning G.K. more money than many of his literary works. Likewise, G.K.'s friendship with H.G. Wells was also quite close. At one time H.G, G.K. and Shaw and some others even made a short farcical film together. Did G.K. buy into the notion of salvation for all? He wrote in ORTHODOXY: "To hope for all souls is imperative, and it is quite tenable that their salvation is inevitable." Though he adds that such a view "is not specially favorable to activity or progress. . .In Christian morals, in short, it is wicked to call a man 'damned': but it is strictly religious and philosophic to call him damnable."
Of course, people call each other "damnable" all the time, even universalists. *smile*
I have recently read Chesterton's "Orthodoxy" right through on the plane to America and made notes of anything important he wrote in it. I am sure that if Chesterton wrote in "Orthodoxy" what you quoted above I would have remembered it.Is it my turn now to act "surprised?" That sentence in ORTHODOXY always stuck with me from the moment I first read it. In a recent Ignatius Press reprint, dated 1995, the sentence can be found on pg. 143.
So I am not particularly interested in discussing at any length your personal salvation, but I must say I am curious as to whether you *really* think you can be an "anti-Christian", and devote your life to debunking Christ and Christianity, yet still be saved by Christ?Pardon, first you labelled me an "anti-Christian" (based on your interpretation of exactly who Christ was/is and what he taught and metaphysically accomplished). But I look at hardline conservative evangelicals as "anti-Christians," misunderstanding the nature of the Gospels, of the Bible, even doing things totally against some of the things Jesus himself taught, even against things Paul taught, like when Paul admonished churches to judge themselves first and foremost.
And now you say that I am "devoting my life to debunking Christ and Christianity" (based on your view of my life -- of which you only know one particular aspect -- and based on your view of what constitutes "Christ" -- and based on your view of what constitutes "Christianity"). I find it ironic that the history of self-proclaimed "Christians" is -- practically speaking -- a history of groups "debunking" other groups since the days of the apostles.
I will tell you some of the things I like most about the Jesus of the synoptic Gospels, his personal faith, go into your closet and pray, not loudly out in the street like the hypocrites [I'm still waiting for the "prayer in closet" movement to catch on and outpace the "prayer in school" movement], don't be afraid to get personally in touch with God regardless of what religious authorities tell you, fear not him who can kill the body [perhaps a lesson for abortion clinic bombers to learn?], woe to the rich! [a lesson for white collar crooks to learn], woe to religious hypocrites! Judge not lest ye be judged. Love your enemy, and, love your neighbor [which I think Chesterton pointed out, are usually the same person, which is why Jesus mentioned both of them]. And of course, the teaching in the Lord's prayer that if you forgive people on earth then your heavenly Father will likewise forgive you your sins in heaven.
Chesterton wrote, "To hope for all souls is imperative; and it is quite tenable that their salvation is inevitable." I note that you are now making moves to cover your basesI'm covering nothing, though perhaps you are trying to cover over Chesterton's broad heart like when he wrote, "it is quite tenable that their salvation is inevitable."
Concerning George Bernard Shaw, Chesterton stated, "In a sweeter and more solid civilization he would have been a great saint."
And when H.G. Wells was seriously ill, he wrote Chesterton and said, "If after all my Atheology turns out wrong and your Theology right I feel I shall always be able to pass into Heaven (if I want to) as a friend of G.K.C.'s. Bless you."
To this Chesterton replied, "If I turn out to be right, you will triumph, not by being a friend of mine, but by being a friend of Man, by having done a thousand things for men like me in every way from imagination to criticism. The thought of the vast variety of that work, and how it ranges from towering visions to tiny pricks of humor, overwhelmed me suddenly in retrospect; and I felt we have none of us ever said enough. . .Yours always, G. K. Chesterton." [Dec. 10, 1933, letter from H.G. Wells to G.K. Chesterton. Undated reply from G.K. Chesterton to H.G. Wells. Letters quoted in full in Maise Ward, Gilbert Keith Chesterton (New York: Sheed & Ward, 1943), pp. 604-605.]
Note that Chesterton said an atheist would get into heaven (i.e., "triumph") simply by "being a friend of Man."
by adding additional quotes from the passage in an attempt to lessen the impactI think Chesterton wanted to "lessen the impact" of his "tenability of universalism" in the face of church dogmas on damnation. So he combined the view that it was "quite tenable that their salvation is inevitable" with a practical view of damnation as a motivator.
What Chesterton didn't realize or fess up to was that the threat of damnation is primarily a motivator for a person to join a particular Christian denomination and accept a particular soteriology (salvation theology), rather than a universal motivator to do good.
I think people are motivated in a more universal fashion to do good by virtue of the fact that joys shared are doubled, while sorrows shared are halved. We are beings who have the same physical and psychological needs, fears, and pleasures. Few people enjoy having physical or psychological pains inflicted on them in word or deed; while the vast majority enjoy similar physical and psychological pleasures. Fear of damnation as I said seems to create more sects and divisions, each of which insist in the full acceptance of their soteriological beliefs as the only way to avoid damnation.
...which seemed to be that Chesterton was a universalist with regard to salvation. Heck, I think we'd all like to be universalists and hope that every one will in the end be "saved""Hoping" is one thing, but finding universalism "quite tenable" is another. "To hope for all souls is imperative" Chesterton agreed, but he went even further and stated "and it is quite tenable that their salvation is inevitable."
but alas you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.You mean drink of your particular soteriological theological beliefs.
It is not for us to damn any other human being, but the fact is that some may damn themselves.By viture of not accepting your particular soteriological theological beliefs.
Chesterton hopes for the bestHe did not say that he merely "hoped for the best," he said he found universal salvation "quite tenable." And he told Wells that Wells would get into heaven by virtue of being "a friend of Man."
but he is nevertheless a realist about human nature and about how every man - metaphorically speaking - hangs by a thread or clings to a precipice.Yes, G.K. wanted to see more people become Christians, probably witty exhuberant Christians like himself, "Chestertonianity," I'd call it. G.K. felt that Christianity (as he understood it,) made more sense and was more practical than other beliefs. However part of his belief was that he found universal salvation "quite tenable." Just read THE BALL AND THE CROSS sometime, in which a Christian and an atheist (modeled on the likes of himself and George Bernard Shaw) find more in common in the midst of their duel to the death than either of them had in common with the blank stares of the world around them. Both the Christian and the Atheist also receive visions in that novel that reveal the worst aspects of each of their faiths to each of them. Their debate and love of their fellow man made their friendship all the more close. That is a truly Chestertonian point.
The following article, in its entirety, is located at
http://etb-history-theology.blogspot.com/2012/04/gk-chestertons-universalism.html
